Anne Carson

posturing is a matter of name dropping not of theory dependency

I never said it was a matter of theory dependency.

poseurs are name droppers.

You mean like this?:

Troelstrup nightmare risen quiz motiv?tion-issue tincture reality
tw?lve-knit tissue crest n?st-modulation excrescence nativity
fl?-by-n?ght trilateral tusk tenser flagrant rag mortal
limp insistence ancilla Detroit tourmaline torque encarceled discography metal
alert turnabout Timorese
liquid equipment Fal?sha tw?ce-t?ld

[(from Jackson MacLow's "Forties 30: Troelstrup Nightmare Flare Competition")

No 'gratuitious' use of foreign words there, thank God :D

Could you tell me which names Carson drops in "The Glass Essay," "TV Men," or Autobiography of Red? Or in the excerpt from "The Book of Isaiah" I quote above?
 
Well, Eric, if you've decided not to like Carson 'cause she's writes poems about imaginary places, and wants everyone to think she's a "clever bunny," and doesn't read enough contemporary European lit (in translation!) - so be it :D

I don't think her style in "Isaish" is terribly Whitmanesque though; it reminds me more of Ted Hughes in the "neolithic surrealism" mode of his Crow poems - blunt and flat on the one hand, almost histrionic on the other. A style that also polarised readers.
 
Last edited:

Mirabell

Former Member
You mean like this?:



No 'gratuitious' use of foreign words there, thank God :D


Jackson MacLow displays one of the most thorough and committed use of theory and interrogation of poetic language of any living poet. There's nothing gratuitious whatsoever about any aspect in his poetry, at least in the works of his I know of.

As for Carson, I don't really hate her. I thing that "Autobiograohy" is a wonderful book, one which I tend to recommend. I also didn't say that she always namedrops but that she's a poseur, a quality hard to describe, but easy to notice: I recommend reading some of her original poetry, her translations of Sappho and two or three translations of Sappho by different translators (preferably at least one of them in a different language) alongside one another. I swear you'll thank me for it.

Name dropping is one aspect of being a poseur, but Carson's poetry (like Perloff's criticism, too, for example) is more thoroughly written in that mode.

I never said it was a matter of theory dependency.

I helpfully boldened a salient phrase in your argument a few posts earlier.


There is a world of difference between Carson and Bernstein/Silliman; that was exactly my point. Carson's poetry isn't theory dependent, and doesn't make the kind of political claims that the Language poets do.

If posturing is a matter of stance 1st, poetry 2nd - as your original statement suggested - then Carson simply isn't a poseur.



Again, I don't hate her, and I won't debate her work. Among the well-lauded shit that's around, she's certainly one of the better writers. Her success is understandable and well deserved. She writes reasonably accessible poetry, well packaged. A Billy Collins for the classically educated. Good for her, I say.
 
I helpfully boldened a salient phrase in your argument a few posts earlier.


Nope, I said Carson's poetry isn't theory dependent, which is one way a stance or pose - can get "in front" of the poetry. Again, I'm just using your formulation of "X first, poet 2nd." Carson's poetry is not dependent on her "name dropping," her political stance, or anything much else - unlike a lot of other avant garde poets.


A Billy Collins for the classically educated.

I'm not classically educated :)

Jackson MacLow displays one of the most thorough and committed use of theory and interrogation of poetic language of any living poet.

I say to you in full sincerity: I would rather have a truckload of names dropped on my head than read

limp insistence ancilla Detroit tourmaline torque encarceled discography metal

then have the poet smugly tell me they've just demolished the discourses of power :D.
 

Mirabell

Former Member
I'm not classically educated :)

quite.

I say to you in full sincerity: I would rather have a truckload of names dropped on my head than read



then have the poet smugly tell me they've just demolished the discourses of power :D.


Jackson MacLow isn't smug. This is a writer who writes on and on, project after project, working under the dome of his ideas.

I understand he's not for you. Too bad. Have fun with Billy Collins.
 

JTolle

Reader
I'm on the verge of completing two more of Carson's books, Plainwater and Glass, Irony and God (at last), so I figured I'd share a few words.

Glass, Irony and God is, like all her work, superb. Highlights are "The Glass Essay," which is a stunning attempt at reconciliation with the influence of Emily Brontë, and easily one of the best and most emotionally affecting poems Carson has ever written. I can't help but read a little Kafka into it also, now that I'm aware of Carson's relationship to his work. Other highlight being "The Truth About God," which is searing, esoteric, and intensely personal; definitely a solid amount of Zoharic/Biblical imagery in play ("It was from Adam / issued the lights."). A short, representative section:

"The God Fit"

Sometimes God will drop a fit on you.
Leave you on your bed howling.
Don't take it meanly.

Because the outer walls of God are glass.
I see a million souls clambering up the walls on the inside
to escape God who is burning,

untended.
Plainwater, on the other hand, may be the best book she's written. Maybe the fact that it's the most plainly accessible of her work, being more lyrical than most of what I've read, means I'm just striking faster to the heart of things, (I acknowledge that might be it) but it's certainly a fearsome collection. It contains her oft-mentioned series of essay-poems "The Anthropology of Water", the above-mentioned "The Life of Towns" series, and a good deal of other work (this may be the longest book she's published as well, clocking in at a very pleasing 260 pages).

Carson proves, again, that she's a force to be reckoned with in the field of prose-poetry, re-collecting her very brief book "Short Talks" to go along with "The Anthropology of Water" here.

I'm also a huge fan of her "re-envisionings" of Mimnermus (Mimnermos), another Greek poet who is found nowadays only in fragments and references, like Sappho or Stesichorus.

A straight translation of Mimnermus "Fragment 1":

What is life, what is sweet, if it is missing golden Aphrodite?
Death would be better by far than to live with no time for
Amorous assignations and the gift of tenderness and bedrooms,
All of those things that give youth all of its covetted bloom,
Both for men and for women. But when there arrives the vexatiousness
Of old age, even good looks alter to unsightliness
And the heart wears away under the endlessness of its anxieties:
There is no joy anymore then in the light of the sun;
In children there is found hate and in women there is found no respect.
So difficult has old age been made for us all by God!
Anne Carson's beautifully engaged "re-envisioning":

"fr. 1

What Is Life Without Aphrodite?
He seems an irrepressible hedonist as he asks his leading question.
Up to your honeybasket hilts in her ore--or else
----Death? for yes
how gentle it is to go swimming inside her the secret
swimming
----Of men and women but (no) then
the night hide toughens over it (no) then bandages
----Crusted with old man smell (no) then
bowl gone black nor bud nor boys nor women nor sun no
----Spores (no) at (no) all when
God nor hardstrut nothingness close
----its fist on you."

And, as a note, those "(no)"s are part of the original poem, they're a highly innovative and unorthodox use of caesura on the part of Mimnermus that seem to have been glossed over in the straight translation.

All in all, if anyone wanted a book to start reading Carson with, this would be the one I suggest, although, maybe Glass, Irony and God would work, too.
 
Last edited:

Mary LA

Reader
I read Carson with great interest and some ambivalence. She sets my teeth on edge at times. In The Glass Essay I love the 'recreation' of Emily Bronte, the mother and daughter in conflict, the grief breaking through, a quality taut yet restrained, stretched to breaking point -- but then I come to these lines

'She knows how to hang puppies,
that Emily.'

and I feel as if Carson twitched a curtain and shows herself playing for effect, the same way I feel she sets out like s sly adolescent to shock the reader in those infamous lines:

"Everything I know about love and its necessities/ I learned in that one moment/ when I found myself/ thrusting my little burning red backside like a baboon/ at a man who no longer cherished me."

Her translations have some startling moments but she is primarily brilliant at pastiche and that pastiche comes through in the poetry at times.
 

Eric

Former Member
There was a full-page article about Anne Carson in the Swedish daily Svenska Dagbladet yesterday (23rd May 2011). Not read it yet; will report. The article was published within the framework of the Under Strecket (Below the Line) column that always publishes a serious literary or cultural essay, most days of the week. Nowadays, such serious regular features are hard to find in the press of some countries.
 

Ben Jackson

Well-known member
Born in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, in 1950.

Anne Carson teaches Classics and Comparative Literature and received her PhD in Greek Poetry. Her work in translation has brought highly original (though at times dubiously accurate) interpretations to writers like Sappho (If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho) and Euripides (Grief Lessons: Four Plays). Her work as a classicist is an important influence on her poetry.

Carson has been a force in poetry since here first collection Glass, Irony, and God in 1992, but gained a much wider readership and a great deal of critical acclaim for her verse novel Autobiography of Red, published in 1998.

It is obvious in noting a few things about Carson that give warning of her strange ways and often eccentric approach to poetry. The fact that her first collection didn't appear until she was 42 (the same age Stevens was when he published Harmonium); the funny biographical note on all her books that reads simply: Anne Carson lives in Canada; her strange course through schooling--dropping twice out from Toronto University despite stellar academic abilities, but eventually going on, after a foray into the world of graphic arts, to receive here PhD.

In her work she displays an intensely experimental proclivity. Reviewers often make reference to the Pound adage "Make It New" and Rimbaud's "One must be absolutely modern" when speaking about her contortions and explorations of the limits of poetry. Her newest collection, Nox, is an accordion-style book-in-a-box journal and journey through letters and found-poetry and photos centering around the death of her brother. Her collection Decreation includes after some single poems, operas, plays, essays, and prose-poems.

Critics like Harold Bloom and writers Susan Sontag and Michael Ondaatje have hailed Carson as a dominant force in late twentieth and early twenty-first century poetry. Though she has been criticized for her obscure subject matter and, from that perspective, the emotional distance thus created. Particular criticism was leveled against Autobiography of Red when some critics pointed out that alternating long lines and short lines did not really constitute 'verse' (the rumor is that Carson has admitted to writing it as a prose novel that she later 'versified', and on reading it you will notice a strong prosaic note to her poem that is also noticeable in much of her other work).

Whatever the opinions on her may be, she is undoubtedly being recognized as a significant poet, receiving a MacArthur and a Guggenheim, the Griffin Poetry Prize, the T.S. Eliot Prize, and a Lannan among other awards and nominations.

Harold Bloom writes in a book of criticism: For a more detailed bio and analysis go here Anne Carson Criticism


Selected works

Eros the Bittersweet (1986) Princeton University Press
Glass, Irony, and God (1992) New Directions Publishing Company
Short Talks (1992) Brick Books
Plainwater (1995) Knopf
Autobiography of Red: A Novel in Verse (1998) Knopf
Economy of the Unlost: Reading Simonides of Ceos with Paul Celan (1999) Princeton University Press
Men in the Off Hours (2001) Knopf
Electra (translation) (2001) Oxford
The Beauty of the Husband (2001) Knopf
If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho (2002) Knopf
Decreation: Poetry, Essays, Opera (2005) Knopf
Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides (translation) (2006) New York Review Books Classics
An Oresteia (Translation of Agamemnon, Elektra, Orestes. (2009) Faber and Faber
NOX (2010) New Directions

Was very impressed when I read Auto of Red in 2020. She has this unusual style of blending essays, poetry and criticism in a particular book. As innovative as Borges was to short story.
 
Last edited:
Top